|
|
Post by bigjacko on Dec 30, 2019 22:37:03 GMT
Hi, newcomer here.
First, congratulations on the creation of the VDL - it looks great, from what I have seen on screenshots, YT, etc, and I can't wait to give it a whirl.
However, I don't yet have any combination of the JustTrains Metropolitan/S7+1/S8 sets, and I'm in a bit of a quandary as to what to buy.
Your website indicates that the Met and the S8 specifically is a prerequisite, and whilst that's probably the case, I wanted to double-check whether VDL would work properly with the Met and just the S7+1 instead?
Reason I ask is because from what I can see on the JT website, there is a fag-paper's worth of difference between the S8 and the S7+1, in terms of modelling and features, with the exception that the S8 has 12 more scenarios for the Aylesbury route that I don't intend purchasing (at least, not any time soon). In all other respects, JT's extended blurb pages for these products shows 13 exactly-same-named Met scenarios, presumably with 100% the same intentions and outcomes, and a host of in-cab details and running procedures that are word-for-word the same, for both the S7+1 and the S8. I'm guessing that practically, there is a tiny bit of number-painting difference on a body-shell somewhere, that is probably overlaid at runtime anyway...
Call me tight (yes I am), but if I can get VDL to work properly by spending only £39.99 on the JT Met & S7+1 bundle offering, rather than splashing out nearly £52 for the Met and S8 separately then I'd be daft not to! Especially if the S8 is basically no different and just has a bunch of extra scenarios I'll never use. There is, rather oddly, no Met&S8 bundle available, or I'd buy that immediately (assuming it was the same price as the existing Met&S7+1 bundle, of course).
How 'hard-coded' is VDL to using the S8? Is it just a scenery items/base-train-model sorta thing, or is it going to barf when I try and run it on top of the S7+1 because magic driver's spanner or tripcock-wiping finagler is missing, that only exists in the S8 set?
Grateful for any answers or clarity from those in the know. Well done again for releasing such a fine piece of craft, and for free.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jimi on Dec 30, 2019 23:35:31 GMT
Welcome! I'm sure others will answer with their experience, but I'd bet the S7+1/Met bundle would be the best deal. There are scenarios now and others planned using the S7+1 train. There's also a free add-on hosted on AlanThomsomSim that provides a District Line S7 with District destinations. Just a little more realism - and we will be using it in some future scenarios, so very worth getting (free add-on).
Ed/Xavier - do you want to comment on the best JT deal?
|
|
|
|
Post by Eddie on Dec 31, 2019 12:12:37 GMT
I agree with you Jimi, the most relevant deal of the Met/ S7+1 bundle is the one to go for. If you do that, you will be compatible with the forthcoming scenario pack and route update. You won't need the London to Aylesbury or Chiltern Mainline either. All the assets we are using, and more importantly will be using in the future, ship with the Met. The addons described for the District S7 and S7+1 Audio pack on Alan Thomson Sim are prerequisites for our forthcoming scenario pack. They are free, but you do need to register on the site for access to them. So you don't need the S8 for either the VDL or the Met, and the VDL is S7+1 fully compatible. Go for the bundle deal and sit back ready for the future and yesterday combined. The only thing we can't do with the S7+1 ( at the moment ) is to rescript the TMS screen to show District stations. They still show Met ones at the moment. Patches for above from ATS : alanthomsonsim.com/?download=district-line-s7alanthomsonsim.com/?download=s8-underground-stock-advanced-soundupdateAll VDL users are encouraged to use both patches, fully endorsed by all of us in the team. |
|
|
|
Post by Xavier on Dec 31, 2019 14:00:48 GMT
The VDL package that is currently publicly available is still using S8 stops and trigger points, but these will be exchanged for the S7+1 equivalents for the planned VDL update that Eddie has mentioned.
|
|
|
|
Post by bigjacko on Dec 31, 2019 18:54:43 GMT
Thanks gentlemen, very much! I think I have enough to work with, and will give the bundle deal a try. I figured that probably the VDL shared-assets would come from the Met pack (or the Chiltern/Aylesbury pack, though that's not relevant to me yet), rather than the 'loco' pack but it was that mention on the VDL web page about the Requirements that threw me. Perhaps it might be worth updating that page to include the S7+1 as a safe alternative to the S8, if that's the case? Might save you answering the same dumb question from people like me in the future?  Having said that, Xavier's comment raised my eyebrow again, and I wonder whether the train will notice I've stopped at the right places... but I'm still going to give it a try. If it works, great... if not, at least I'll have the Met and an S7+1 to play with, even if it doesn't work with VDL. I can wait for a future VDL update, if that's what it takes. I can't see myself justifying the S8 at full price, given its closeness to the S7+1; it'd be like buying the same thing twice! I do wonder what Just Trains thinks it is playing at here, tbh. Eddie/Jimi - thanks for the tips - I'd already downloaded those patches from ATS in readiness (and in case it helps, it was from Alan's YouTube channel that I first heard about VDL, a month or two ago, and lately the VVL which he was demoing, but I know that's not yours so won't mention it again!  ). I'm an Underground fan of old, and have been waiting for someone to do a TS-compatible version, so really, much power to your elbows. I did a fair bit of 59 tube-stock modelling and coding for BVE, way back in the day. Can't remember what happened to that, but I gave the files to someone still active in the community so maybe it lives on in some form. Seeing your EULA posts elsewhere, I fully appreciate what it is like to labour on a project and then be pushed into releasing it to a community, only to discover that someone undervalues it, or can't appreciate that it may not be 100% finished and just wants to stick their oar in and change it, rather than waiting for its authors to tie up the loose ends. Galling and demoralising, especially if people are rude or 'entitled' in the process. So - I'm very grateful for what you have done, and happy to wait for you to polish your offerings to a point you are happy with it. And I wish you all the luck in the world, and every support. Thanks again for bringing the Underground to TS2020... it's been well worth the wait, and I look forward to some happy hours on the District, remembering old times in the Smoke. Happy New Year! |
|
|
|
Post by Eddie on Dec 31, 2019 19:07:58 GMT
Happy New Year to you bigjacko too. I hope you enjoy many hours on the VDL. . Rest assured we have all the correct SS stopboards and widgets in place so when you stop the train in the right place you will get the in cab monitors on which confirms it. All our current S stock scenarios and future ones will be purely S7+1 plus District S7 reskin although the route is Quickdrive compatible, so someone can still run an S8 on there if they so wish. The requirements will be updated with the next 2.03 release as you suggest. If you still have any reference material for the 59TS we can find some use for it in the future.
|
|
|
|
Post by bigjacko on Dec 31, 2019 19:54:04 GMT
If you still have any reference material for the 59TS we can find some use for it in the future. Hit me up when you get to that point. I've got loads of old books and diagrams gleaned from that era and thereabouts. Some are out of print for many years now, and would probably be safe to scan and distribute to modellers if the need arose. By far the most difficult bit is going to be putting my hands on the books and paper - I moved house in the meantime (albeit about 10 years ago), and my bookshelves are still not quite in the order I'd like them to be!  |
|
|
|
Post by ningnong on Jan 5, 2020 19:21:49 GMT
Hi,
Not sure if this is the right place, but my question in short is...I would like to get the district line working for ts2020 but have none of the prerequisites needed for anything. I took a look at what was needed and the total was £110, do I need to spend all that just to get one route?
Kind Regards,
Ning
|
|
|
|
Post by Xavier on Jan 5, 2020 22:40:25 GMT
Hi, Not sure if this is the right place, but my question in short is...I would like to get the district line working for ts2020 but have none of the prerequisites needed for anything. I took a look at what was needed and the total was £110, do I need to spend all that just to get one route? Kind Regards, Ning That's a tricky question.
In a nutshell, yes you do. I don't know if you are a new user or not but a lot of us are now veteran users of TS2020 and over time we have been able to acquire all this DLC. Obviously for new users there's a lot of fast catching up to do.
The point of using what we have used is because they include items which are otherwise unique and highly applicable to the setting of our London Underground line. If we hadn't used them then there would be struggles to fill gaps and many areas would be otherwise bare or unattainable. A key aim of VDL is to have a memorable and authentic (within the limits of the simulator) experience of London Underground.
Another thing is that personally, I think £110 worth of DLC from the ground up is actually very good considering it's a freeware route. I have seen some routes on offer that have 4x or 5x as much DLC required and I do believe in being ultra-conservative with the use of DLC items. When I came into this project one of the things I wanted to do was to streamline somewhat what was being used for the route, which I think has been achieved, and all through other stuff I have done I have been very careful not to break into pools of DLC items for things that are perhaps unnecessary.
And lastly if you do attempt to run the route without all the requirements installed then we can't guarantee that things will function properly. So my advice is to not fret about getting everything you need right now if you can't, instead keep an eye out for any sales or discounts for each of the item which will bring down the overall spend, and over time you'll get all that is required.
|
|
|
|
Post by ningnong on Jan 6, 2020 11:07:12 GMT
Xavier,
Thank you for a very kind and informative answer. You are right of course, considering it is a freeware it is a good price to pay for all that we get. I wouldn't say I am new, but not a vet either. I have 18 routes for TS2020 and all 8 of the route packs for TSW2020, but that's nothing in the huge list of DLC for ts2020.
I love playing WoS (London underground circle line) and will get my hands on this district line asap, I will take your advice and wait for the DLC's I need for this beautiful freeware route that I know I'll love.
Thanks again!
Kind Regards,
Ning
|
|
|
|
Post by Eddie on Jan 6, 2020 17:39:13 GMT
One easy way to achieve the above is to put everything you need into your wishlist. When there are sales on you can acquire everything you need for about half the above price or less.
|
|
|
|
Post by ningnong on Jan 6, 2020 18:19:37 GMT
Well I woke this morning and every addon I needed was on sale so I just got them all for £18 instead of £56, so I am very happy with that. Just need the Metropolitan Line and the S8 Advanced.
Thanks for the help guys!
|
|
|
|
Post by Eddie on Jan 6, 2020 18:39:56 GMT
Get the Metropolitan Line and S7+1 bundle for £39.99, dont bother with the S8 *you don't need it.*
EDIT * .....* Erroneous statement. Of course you do need it for 2.02.
|
|
|
|
Post by ningnong on Jan 7, 2020 9:56:09 GMT
Well, that's very disheartening. I purchased it yesterday as I thought it was a requirement. It is even marked as a requirement? Doesn't seem that a refund is possible either. As I say, very disheartening, shouldn't somebody change the requirement of the S8 if we don't need it?
|
|
|
|
Post by Xavier on Jan 7, 2020 10:51:28 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by ningnong on Jan 7, 2020 12:02:59 GMT
I see, so is the S8 used for anything? I mean is it worth keeping or should I just attempt to swap it out for the s7?
|
|
|
|
Post by Eddie on Jan 7, 2020 12:30:04 GMT
Of course, if you want to play with the Metropolitan Line then the S7+1 will serve you just as well. The reason the S8 is listed on our pre-requisites is that to run a couple of scenarios you do need it at the moment. The forthcoming update will exchange the S8 for the S7+1 for the player train for the original scenario, plus two new scenarios which will employ only the S7+1. Eventually, but not straight away the S7+1 will be the only train used on the VDL.
With my post above I was trying to save you the cost of the S8, but as Xavier has pointed out you will need it to run the current version, so not a total waste either. We do not know how long it will take to produce the new update, so you haven't actually wasted any money by buying the S8. All of us here have both trains.
|
|
|
|
Post by ningnong on Jan 7, 2020 12:40:42 GMT
I see! That make's it a lot clearer. I use the Metropolitan Line as well as VDL so I suppose I will just buy the S7 when this new update comes out. A new question arises from this though - should I buy the S7 now? Will it enhance the sim/immersion in any way now?
|
|
|
|
Post by Eddie on Jan 7, 2020 13:13:10 GMT
Not now, we are using the S8 for the current 2.02 version of the route. Your best option is to buy it when our 2.03 version ships. That will include a scenario pack that does employ the S7+1. The S8 is still used in at least a couple of the original scenarios as well, and there are no plans to alter that yet. I must say JT really muddied the waters by offering the Met with the S7+1 for a bundle price which effectively charges you just £9.99 for the new train.
But you wouldn't have been able to run some of the scenarios in your route as it stands without the S8, so I apologise for my misleading comments above about not needing the S8.
|
|
|
|
Post by ningnong on Jan 7, 2020 14:32:35 GMT
Hey, no apology required at all. I just wanted to understand what was for what and I think we have it all cleared up. Looking forward to the new release, and thanks for all the information and help given here, much appreciated.
|
|
). I'm an Underground fan of old, and have been waiting for someone to do a TS-compatible version, so really, much power to your elbows. 
