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Post by Eddie on Feb 3, 2021 14:45:24 GMT
Hopefully this will enable a few of you to get up and running in the Scenario Editor.
The first thing to do is to write out a basic script of what you want to portray. What era do you want to set it in ? Which stocks do you want to appear in it as artificial intelligence driven.
Which season, what time of day, what type of weather.
Once you have decided that, you need to decide where you want to start and finally finish. Then where you will stop to pick up passengers. On the District its easy, you stop at every station. To start with keep it simple. Just your train and nothing else. That is a golden rule.
You need to make sure your basic start and finish works. Sometimes it won't, if you have fifteen AI trains running, you will have no idea why it doesn't work. So how do you start ?
Over to Jimi for a clue.
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Post by Jimi on Feb 3, 2021 16:24:24 GMT
This just sparked about an hour offline discussion between Eddie and I. Here's what we're planning - and we'd like you all (whoever is interested) to be involved as it evolves...
We're going to build a new scenario and document it step at a time in this thread. This will enable questions, ideas and discussion from you all. At the end we will formalize the results into a downloadable "how to" document and scenario.
The scenario "story" will be a simple D78 working starting at Olympia, going to High St Ken bay road, and then to Wimbledon. We picked OLY as open air stations are much easier [for a more novice scenario creator] to exactly place a train at the correct starting place, HSK bay as D78s don't go further around the Circle and it allows a reverse move, and the WIM road as there's many places to create a situation that the player has to deal with. Plus it presents a plausible DR/D78 scenario that will give a player some degree of challenge and some areas of interest. And it's not too hard for a more novice scenario creator to build/test. Time of day, weather, etc. TBD - those are easy to tweak.
At each stage we will post the WHAT, HOW and WHY of what we do, including screenshots showing details. So both how we design the scenario (story) to bring it to life, but also how to use the various tools. Plus what can go wrong and how to debug/fix it.
We will start with a single player train, define it's service (start, passenger pickup stations along the route, and end point) and any other train/player actions needed. Those will include how to show messages (mimicking Connect Radio communication) to the player train operator - the player/operator must always understand what is expected of them.
We don't add anything else until the player train runs exactly as intended and the player "succeeds".
Then we design the AI traffic needed, and their paths and timetables. These include simple "other services seen by the player so the world looks appropriately busy", plus competing and conflicting services that may impede the player, cause red signals, etc.
Then we test it as we add the AI trains. This can be very eye opening and even frustrating. The "Curse of Unintended Consequences" comes into play. The TS scheduler can get in the way of desired timings and events. We will also show ways to re-use AI trains so they are seen at multiple places as needed (few can pretend to be many, If you don't look closely at the set number), to keep scenario resources manageable.
Contribution, questions, ideas and discussion are encouraged! But please keep it on topic as far as possible :-)
Please give us a few days to get this going...
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Post by Eddie on Feb 4, 2021 15:05:39 GMT
OK, Before we start with the nuts and bolts of creating a scenario there are a few golden rules which will make the job easier for you as creator and less frustrating in the process. This is what Jimi and I found to our advantage.
Rule 1.
Only use the 32 bit Train Simulator to open the Editor with. Sure, you can use the 64 bit version but it is likely to crash on you. The Scenario Editor in TS is flaky at the best of times. It WILL crash on you, get that into your brief right from the start. We found the 32 bit version to be that little bit more stable. If the 64 bit version crashes on you it can easily corrupt the tracks.bin file and take out the whole route for you. We found this out the hard way. The 32 bit version has never corrupted the tracks.bin file, so is a lot safer to use.
Rule 2.
Use the F2 key to save, save, save , save, save save save. Basically, save after EVERY SINGLE edit action. If you forget to do this, you will lose hours of work. The SE gives you absolutely no indication of when it is going to crash. It just dumps you out. If you have saved, you will only lose your last edit.
Rule 3.
Only put down the single player train to start with. DO NOT ADD ANY OTHER SERVICE. This is really important. The TS Despatcher has its own weird logic that can interfere with what actions you want the player train to succeed in. Everything can affect this from the start position to the final closing action. Only once you have tested the player train as to what actions it accomplishes can you start to add messages ( that is one action that is known to crash the SE ) and AI trains.
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Post by Jimi on Feb 5, 2021 21:54:41 GMT
UPDATE
Ed & I have started what will become the VDL Scenario Creation Guide. We have an outline and an initial TOC which means we've planned what topics to write about, topic flow, and can now add the actual content and pix.
Our intent for each section is to write between us and then post it to this thread That way you can all critique, question, comment, so at the end of that we have a section that is understandable and covers all the questions. And we keep going until we're done all the required sections.
We are also going to point out specifics regarding the VDL that will help you create scenarios on it. Details like using a Go-Via EB from ECM so the dispatcher doesn't route the train through the depot, because the path is shorter.
As a prelude, you may wish to revisit the VDL Route Guide, because there's a bunch of info in there about stations, sidings, depots, etc. and the procedures for using them, that will be of value when you get to developing scenarios that follow LUL practices and procedures.
We will post Section 1 (creating the scenario, properties, the player train and defining its path) as soon as we're happy with the 1st draft. We look forward to your involvement and contributions.
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Post by Eddie on Feb 7, 2021 13:46:21 GMT
In the meantime guys, before you can create realistic scenarios, you will need to be totally clued up on the route map. You should be able to sketch it out on a bit of paper from memory. That won't be needed for this basic tutorial, but it will be if you want to take things further. Use Free Roam and the Route Guide doc and route map to clue up on it.
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Post by Jimi on Feb 7, 2021 20:40:41 GMT
And we have adopted new terminology as we're fond of doing. The Scenario Creation Guide will have Modules. Module 1 will be creating the scenario, defining its properties, picking and placing the player train consist and defining its properties. Module 2 will be defining the player train path OLY-HSK-WIM in detail, illustrating the timetable view and how to add actions (passenger pickup,etc.). Module 3 will be testing the player train. Module 4 will be AI traffic design and adding AI trains. Etc.
More to come. We got almost 30 annotated screen grabs done today, ready to drop into the doc and add explanatory text. Modules 1 and 2 in process, #3 in design phase. |
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Post by Jimi on Feb 15, 2021 20:39:56 GMT
UPDATE:
Modules 1 and 2 are now complete and going through team review/tweak. 26 pages, 47 annotated screenies. Much detail.
We're also figuring a process to get those who are interested involved with review/questions/suggestions/etc. as the document evolves. More info shortly...
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Post by Eddie on Feb 16, 2021 17:11:21 GMT
We're looking for members to review the first two modules of this guide. If you are interested in proof reading this document and even trying out what is written. Please PM me and I'll post you a drop box link. You will be mentioned in the credits and maybe join a beta team of scenario testers................
Over to you.
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Post by Jimi on Feb 18, 2021 18:04:22 GMT
I hope Ed didn't scare anyone away by suggesting proof reading. Word does that quite well re grammar check and spelling.
This all started when Alan (Gandalf53) asked if there was any scenario creation info around. So we've created some and we'd really like you to try out the modules so far. Is it understandable? Do the annotated pix work? Can you follow it and create a scenario? What's missing? We've got over 30 hours in this so far developing almost 30 pages and 40 pix/diagrams, and we'd really appreciate some feedback.
Any comments and questions are strongly solicited. Send Ed a PM and he'll point you at the download.
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Post by Eddie on Feb 19, 2021 1:30:39 GMT
OK guys, we've got 3 of you on board now to have a look at this guide and see if it helps anyone to create a scenario who hasn't yet done so in TS. Come on dip your toes in the Scenario Editor and discover how powerful a tool it is. It might be unstable at times, but its like a Swiss Army Knife. Almost every feature you could ever dream up is built into it. Fantastic piece of software that will enrich your TS experience boundlessly. Drop me that PM !!!!!
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Post by Jimi on Feb 19, 2021 14:11:06 GMT
And please bear in mind folks we've only done 2 modules so far - but that gets you a working player train and some basic SE knowledge. The next modules - testing and designing/adding AI - will be deeper topics.
For those reviewing and trying out our examples - please feel free to post comments, questions, ideas, critique here so all can see. We'd like to make this as shared an experience as possible and get people interested.
Thanks!
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Post by gandalf53 on Feb 20, 2021 17:31:57 GMT
I hope Ed didn't scare anyone away by suggesting proof reading. Word does that quite well re grammar check and spelling. This all started when Alan (Gandalf53) asked if there was any scenario creation info around. So we've created some and we'd really like you to try out the modules so far. Is it understandable? Do the annotated pix work? Can you follow it and create a scenario? What's missing? We've got over 30 hours in this so far developing almost 30 pages and 40 pix/diagrams, and we'd really appreciate some feedback. Any comments and questions are strongly solicited. Send Ed a PM and he'll point you at the download. Hi Sorry only just seen this, am I too late to put my name down for testing? If so please bear me in mind for future iterations... Thanks for putting the work in to get this off the ground Regards Alan |
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Post by Jimi on Feb 20, 2021 18:07:43 GMT
No Alan, not too late at all and thanks for volunteering. Please PM Eddie and he will reply with the Dropbox location for downloading the PDF.
We will be working on Module 3 this coming week, but you (all) have plenty of time to read/review/comment/question/suggest/etc.
All reviewers: Please reply to this thread with questions and comments, etc. so we can all share the process.
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Post by Eddie on Feb 20, 2021 19:13:08 GMT
Alan I've sent you a link in your Personal Messages...............
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Post by Jimi on Feb 21, 2021 19:20:05 GMT
Comment/Question from Mike (PM'd to Eddie):Found it easy to follow and the build worked fine.
Now trying out a few things of my own.
Looking forward to further modules to improve my knowledge.
meantime.
How do you reverse a train at a temporary destination marker?Answer:You can [normally] only reverse where there is a reversing location designated for the purpose, which includes a Limit Of Shunt sign showing where to stop, and a shunt controlling the reverse move via a x-over to the other [opposite direction] track. These exist at multiple locations to enable reversing in cases where the line ahead has an issue (stalled train, points failure, etc.) and you want/need to reverse the service (turn short) to keep the trains running. (I say "normally" because I'm allowing there might be a very unusual and exceptional situation IRL where you'd reverse the train "wrong road"; and I'll check with our LUL experts).
However in the Virtual District the track directionality properties will prevent you reversing other that at locations designated for it. The properties are mostly in place to ensure the TS Dispatcher routes trains on the correct tracks. In the Scenario Editor you can place scenario-specific location markers, however you can't arbitrarily decide to create a temp location and reverse from it. The track directionality almost certainly will prevent it - unless it's a section of track that has been assigned as bi-directional because [virtual] LUL/DR needs it to be so (e.g. OLY single-track, BCT Center Sidings, any reverse roads, terminal sidings, termini platforms, depot roads, etc.).
What reverse move were you trying to simulate and at what location? Maybe we can come up with another way to do it.
If this doesn't answer your question, or you have follow-up please continue the discussion here.
Thanks!
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Post by AlexTheMole on Feb 22, 2021 0:19:56 GMT
This all sounds like a great idea, I wish the team best of luck with it. Hopefully it will help both current and potential TS scenario creators. I would offer to help as well but me and TS scenarios have an understanding, it leaves me alone and I leave it alone.  |
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Post by Mike on Feb 22, 2021 15:35:27 GMT
Comment/Question from Mike (PM'd to Eddie):Found it easy to follow and the build worked fine.
Now trying out a few things of my own.
Looking forward to further modules to improve my knowledge.
meantime.
How do you reverse a train at a temporary destination marker?Answer:You can [normally] only reverse where there is a reversing location designated for the purpose, which includes a Limit Of Shunt sign showing where to stop, and a shunt controlling the reverse move via a x-over to the other [opposite direction] track. These exist at multiple locations to enable reversing in cases where the line ahead has an issue (stalled train, points failure, etc.) and you want/need to reverse the service (turn short) to keep the trains running. (I say "normally" because I'm allowing there might be a very unusual and exceptional situation IRL where you'd reverse the train "wrong road"; and I'll check with our LUL experts). However in the Virtual District the track directionality properties will prevent you reversing other that at locations designated for it. The properties are mostly in place to ensure the TS Dispatcher routes trains on the correct tracks. In the Scenario Editor you can place scenario-specific location markers, however you can't arbitrarily decide to create a temp location and reverse from it. The track directionality almost certainly will prevent it - unless it's a section of track that has been assigned as bi-directional because [virtual] LUL/DR needs it to be so (e.g. OLY single-track, BCT Center Sidings, any reverse roads, terminal sidings, termini platforms, depot roads, etc.). What reverse move were you trying to simulate and at what location? Maybe we can come up with another way to do it.
If this doesn't answer your question, or you have follow-up please continue the discussion here. Thanks!
Hi Jimi,
I was trying to bring a train out of the sidings at Edgware road out to the limit of shunt and then reverse into platforms 3 or 4. The dispatcher seemed to guide me to Paddington on the H&C and then back to Edgware road. As I could not see a stop marker I placed a destination marker and also changed the track to bi directional. I hope only within the scenario. Opened up the properties for the marker and selected reversing but it did not seem to want to play. Thanks , Mike
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Post by Jimi on Feb 22, 2021 16:49:55 GMT
Hi Mike, You have more than likely exposed a bug in the track properties between ERD and Praed St Jct. The move out of ERD sidings to the LOS, then reverse wrong road into P3 or P4 should work as in real life. However in re-reading the route guide I notice I don't discuss the siding moves, but do note that P3 is bi-directional (to handle DR reverse moves) but P4 isn't. This (P4) may be wrong and I will check LUL details, but a reverse into P3 should be possible. That the dispatcher is taking you via H&C metals strongly suggests wrong directionality preventing the expected reverse move wrong road from the LOS. I will re-check the track properties, and real life operations, and report back. But clearly the intent of the LOS and related wrong-road shunt are to allow a move out of siding and back into a WB platform. More as I investigate... and thanks for exposing this!
UPDATE: My reading/understanding of relevant diagrams indicates the P4 is used for Inner Rail Circles, not DR trains. EB DR trains ex-HSK nominally reverse in P3 (EB-WB), but points and signaling indicates P2 is also possible (although we don't recommend it in-sim). So to my mind, the question becomes what is the intended purpose of the ERD sidings, and what moves are intended from there? The reversing track bounded by the LOS at signal OP12/R134 (about 50m in rear of Praed St Jct) and the related wrong-road shunt imply the purpose of that reversing track is to allow trains from the siding to continue to PAD (H&C or Circle), or reverse into the WB platform(s). There is no other logical purpose.
Making life even more interesting, there's a reversing road just east of the station (towards Baker St) with LOS at signal A413, allowing wrong-road (WB) reverse back into P2 or P3. So we know P2 and P3 must be bi-directional for several reasons.
MORE UPDATE:
Found the diagram I wanted which clarifies possible moves, and thus intent. The wrong-road shunt related to the sidings (OP32) has a theater box with 4 routes. This tells us it can allow paths to Siding (only 1 there today, whereas VDL has the historic 2), P2, P3, P4. This means P2...P4 need to be bi-directional; as must be the track from siding exit and related X-overs to the WB LOS.
Further, the shunt in the east tunnel allowing reverse back into ERD has 3 routes which must (per points) be P1, P2, P3. So P1 must also be bi-directional as far west as the FRLs. P2...P4 all have WB starters.
Finally, an older diagram of the area (pre-S7) shows the [then two] sidings designated as "98m C69/77 Stock" - which I guess could either be C69 Wimbleware, or Circles.
Now I know for sure what the intent and possible paths are, I'll re-check the VDL track. I thought I got it right when I did the properties for this area, however I expect to find errors in terms of missing b-directional segments.
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Post by Jimi on Feb 22, 2021 18:03:23 GMT
OK, found the error. Actually 2 errors.
Firstly I put in a 2-path shunt for OP32, thinking it only needed to control access back into the siding. Clearly I didn't look at the diagram (showing 5 paths) closely. Secondly I (at least consistently) didn't make the P2/3/4 track sections to the LOS bi-directional. For those reasons the dispatcher is routing your train to the H&C and back. This is therefore the latest in a long series of someone (usually Ed) creating a scenario that exposes a track bug (usually mine), but usually found/fixed before release. This also means you are now a de facto member of our Beta test team, if you wish :-)
It's going to be hard for us to fix this until Phase III as our current track is vastly more than is in v2.2, and fixing this involves changes that will affect the tracks database (tracks.bin).
Mike - I note you said you tried to fix the directionality so if you're game to try editing further... What is needed is the sections from the LOS back to P2/P3/P4/Sidings all be bi-directional. Further, you need to swap out the 2-path shunt (OP32) for a 5-path version connected to P2/P3/P4/Sidings 25/26. Then it will all work.
Note that editing track properties where selecting a portion of track is required is VASTLY easier if you move the loft tiles to "somewhere else" (temp folder) so the juice rails aren't in the way. Move the loft tile files back into their folder after.
If not, have your train exit sidings and enter service at PAD (Circle). Mea Culpa.
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Post by Mike on Feb 23, 2021 10:53:58 GMT
Hi Jimi, Wow I did not expect to cause you so much hassle! I enjoy starting and ending scenarios from the sidings, hence I was starting to build a scenario whereby while opening up the cab other movements would be going on around you and causing a short pause while stock cleared allowing your own first movement. I will continue to experiment, in a copy of the main game.It was C stock I was moving out from the sidings as I remember seeing such moves many years ago! I will try something different at another location for now. Looking forward to Phase three and most especially Richards R stock. Thanks to the team for all your work. Mike P.S.
I would be honored to join the Beta team. Thank you.
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Post by Jimi on Feb 23, 2021 15:59:10 GMT
No hassle at all Mike. I was just being a bit slow and thorough in checking how things should be. Now we know the issues it's easy to fix in our current dev build. Our thanks to you for exposing the issue, and we will certainly involve you in future Beta testing. Good to have someone who thinks "off the edge of the property" a bit.
Scenarios, besides being fun to create (and run), are also a superb tool to expose and diagnose route/track/signal errors.
I like your idea of starting in a siding - we've done a few of those, plus a few depot starts. It's a nice change from a platform or terminus; with other activity going on around you. My favorite of ours was the Emma scenario from ECMDT where 2 other trains precede you. Took me a while to figure how to do that, plus time the radio calls so it all felt real.
OK - back to the scenario guide. Any further comments from anyone? We're designing Module 3 right now, but wanted to make sure 1 and 2 made sense to you all before continuing.
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Post by Eddie on Feb 23, 2021 23:01:42 GMT
I've received a further comment from Johnny who has had a chance to read through the document. It is all Jimi's work, I just provided a few screen grabs.
Quote "Hi Eddie,
I’ve had an extremely busy weekend but managed to get through 12 pages so far - from what I’ve seen so far the document is very well written.
You explain everything clearly and in layman’s terms and I haven’t spotted any mistakes.
I’ll let you know when I’ve finished.
Overall, it looks like a fantastic job so far - just like everything else you’ve produced to date!
Cheers" from Johnny.
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Post by Jimi on Feb 24, 2021 15:36:54 GMT
...It is all Jimi's work, I just provided a few screen grabs.... I don't want this to appear like a mutual admiration society, but in the interests of credit where due, I want to note that Ed's contributions were a lot more than he admits.
We worked together on the outline of the whole doc, and spent hours tossing ideas and layout thoughts back/forth. He put together the scenario and in process took about 120 screenshots from which we picked about 50 that could tell the story at a good level of detail. He gave me a ton of feedback and suggestions re the annotated pix so we could show process with as simple a method as possible (numbered steps). He proof read it all several times, so if you find it to be of similar style and quality to our other docs, his detailed reviews are part of the reason. The VDL takes teamwork.
With that aside, I do have some questions for you all. Are we pitching this at too simple a level? Not knowing the experience and skill of the reader makes this a bit tricky, so I think we erred on the side of "more detail". Does this work?
In the subsequent sections on adding AI, I feel we can point back to the player train sections as adding the train and defining its path is almost identical in terms of process. Obviously we will point out differences and details.
What I expect to be of more interest is the design of the AI traffic paths and timetables. Where do we start/stop the train? We will, at some point, have to discuss portals - our recent scenarios use them extensively to keep the "running train count" and thus resource demand reasonable. The VDL as of v2.2 is FULL of portals. Do we simply want to make the world look busy? Do we want to replicate WTT services? Do we want traffic to impede (other train ahead) or compete with (converging junctions) the player? What happens if player is early or late? And of course how do we test it all to ensure it behaves as we intend? Initially, it seldom does :-)
If you guys have other questions or topics you'd like to see covered, please post them here so we can work those into the document.
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Post by gandalf53 on Feb 24, 2021 15:55:45 GMT
Hi Guys
Have just started working through the document 🙂
From my perspective the simpler the better! 🙂 I would suggest starting with the assumption that the reader knows absolutely nothing about scenario creation or indeed using the build menus (as in my case) would be the best way to go, as I think even experienced users I suspect will have forgotten some of the tricks... As I was told when writing my masters dissertation, always assume the reader knows nothing 🙂
Again thanks for all your work, sorry if my initial innocent inquiry has made a lot of extra work for you 🙂
Regards
Alan
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Johnny
Station Staff
Posts: 15
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Post by Johnny on Feb 24, 2021 19:12:04 GMT
Hi guys,
Just sent Eddie a PM with some final feedback on the whole document so far.
After a manic weekend and an 11 and a half hour day yesterday, I was previously too knackered to finish reviewing it!
Cheers
Johnny
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